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and we will post your Bible questions and our Bible answers on this page. You
will receive no e-mail from us that you do not ask for. Send your question to
"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient
for you that I go
away: for if I go not not away,
the Comforter will not come unto you; but
depart, I will send him unto you" (Jn. 16:7).
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I have been reading your explanation of The Trinity and I would like to make
some inquiries. According to the Word in Genesis, In The Beginning was The Word
(God) And the word was With God and The Word was God. Now according to The
Scripture, there was Three creative powers in Heaven from the beginning, God,
His word and His Power But the word also says that God Meaning One created man.
Which leads me to believe that God was ONE God but Three entities, His Being (by
this I mean His Actual Being) His Word (Which is that which He speaks and The
Holy Ghost ( His Power).
Now in St. John the first chapter The Scripture says that in the beginning was
The Word (Which was God) and The Word was made flesh. My question is this what
where does it say that The Word was Jesus and not God. If the Holy Ghost is God,
then why would the word not be God. God's WORD is what created heaven and earth.
Does that mean that Jesus created heaven and earth?
Now, when God's word became Flesh it was Jesus and Jesus was God among men.
According to the scripture, in Exodus when God told Moses to go to Pharaoh,
Moses said who am I that I should go to pharaoh...when they ask who has sent me
who shall I say you are and GOD said...tell them I AM has sent you.
When Jesus was speaking to the people in St. John He said, before there even was
an Abraham, I was "I AM". Does that not say that Jesus is saying He was God
before Abraham even existed?
When Jesus ascended into glory, the Scripture says that He sits on the right
hand of God. But Genesis does not say that Jesus sat on the right hand of God
from the beginning. It says God, His Word and His Spirit were in Heaven.
My problem is this, If the Word was God and The Word became flesh and that flesh
became Jesus does that mean Jesus was in heaven from the beginning or was God in
heaven from the beginning. Also, if Jesus was actually God operating on His own
power and not under the anointing of The Holy Ghost, how could He have been an
example to us for we are NOT God's and worst yet, we were born in sin and shaped
in iniquity and Jesus never was.
Another thing, Was Jesus a man operating under the power of God or was He God
walking in flesh with power unto Himself only praying to God as a means of
giving respect and fellowship? If Jesus was God in flesh, why would He need to
pray to God for the manifestation of miracles. If He did not have to pray to God
for works of wonder because He was God and not a flesh and blood man, then how
can we use Him as an example for us, we are not anything like Him even under the
power of The Holy Ghost Power. Was Jesus equal to God even when He was in flesh?
Can the son be equal to the Father?
Are the Three now and before literally the same and three functions or are they
LIKE in all ways but one is the father and one is the son or are they all three
God but one is the being or the person of God, one is His spoken word and one
I believe that Jesus Christ is Lord, God and Savior. I believe that Jesus died
for my sin but that He was in fact God made flesh. I do not believe that God got
off His throne and came to the earth but I believe the same way His word created
all that has been created, His word became flesh and blood so that His blood
could redeem us back unto Him. I believe His word had to come through a woman
for the purpose of buying us back.
I guess where I differ is in the fact that I do not believe The Word was The son
but the Word was God's creative spoken word. I believe that I cannot know God
unless I know His word because He is His word, literally meaning His written
word (The Bible) and Our savior Jesus, which is The Word made flesh.
Thanks for your inquiry concerning our website. I'm going to address your
questions and some of your statements in the order which you wrote them:
1.) I believe you mistakenly perceived that I'm preaching the "Trinity"
doctrine, which actually I'm not. You may refer back to the tract that you read,
"The True Oneness Of God," and see that one of the sub-headings states
that both the "Trinity" doctrine and the "Jesus Only" doctrine are erroneous.
2.) When man was created, God spoke to SOMEONE, saying "Let US make man in OUR
image, after OUR likeness:" (Gen. 2:26) That SOMEONE was His Son Jesus Christ.
Seeing man is made in the image of God, God had to be speaking here to someone
else Who also was God, which agrees with Jn. 1:1,2 and Prov. 8:30.
3.) The preceding point leads to the question about whether Jesus created all
things. Ephesians 3:9 plainly says that God created all things THROUGH Jesus
Christ, meaning God gave the command and Christ did the creating. John 1:3 and
Colossians 1:16 clearly state that Jesus created all things. During creation in
Genesis, when God repeatedly said "Let there be...," He was speaking to the Son,
giving command to create.
4.) Jesus is clearly referred to as "The Word of God" in Rev. 19:13. You can more
perfectly confirm this by combining Rev. 1:14, and Rev.3:14 with Rev. 19:13.
5.) Concerning Jesus being God before Abraham: Jesus is referred to in the
Scriptures as "the ONLY BEGOTTEN of the Father" (Jn. 1:14, etc.). To beget
someone means that they come out of their father's body. Jesus Christ is the
ONLY being who ever literally came out of the Father's body, and that's why He
is said to be the "only begotten of the Father." That also is why He is referred
to as "the express image of His (the Father's) person" (Heb. 1;3). This also is
what makes Jesus God. It's impossible for Him to be anything else but God,
seeing He is totally of the Father's substance. Everyone and everything else was
CREATED by God through Christ, but not BEGOTTEN the way Christ was. It's true
that spirit baptized believers are referred to as "begotten" by God (I Pet. 1:3),
but through ADOPTION (Gal. 4:4,5; Rom. 8:14,15). We are "grafted" in (Rom.11:17)
though the baptism of the Spirit (I Cor. 12:13). but nobody has been directly
begotten of the Father the way Christ was. That's why He is God, and nobody else
is, except the Father of course. This means that yes Jesus is deity, but no he
is not also the Father. In Heb. 1:8,9 we see the Father calling the Son "God,"
and also telling Him that He (The Father) is His (The Son's) "God."
6.) Jesus not only was in Heaven from the beginning, He IS the Beginning
(Rev. 3;14; Prov. 8:22 with I Cor. 1:30). God the Father had no beginning. He has
always been. Period! The Father's name, Jehovah, is translated in Hebrew to mean
the "Self Existent." Praise God! Everyone else exists by the Father, including
Jesus (Acts 17:28; Jn.6:57). Jesus Christ, being the first entity of any kind
ever created, thusly HAS TO BE "The Beginning." (Col. 1:15-17; Prov. 8:22-31)
7.) The reason Jesus prayed is made clear in Heb. 5:7, where we are told that He
prayed to the Father with "strong crying and tears unto Him that was able to
save Him from death, and was heard in that He feared;" It's evident that this is
speaking of one Person praying to another Person who was greater than Himself,
which agrees with what Jesus said about His Father in John 14:28.
8.) That point leads to this one: When the scripture refers to Jesus as being
"equal with God," (Philip. 2:6) it doesn't mean that the Son is equal to the
Father in the way we think of equality. The Greek translation refers to
"similarity," or "likeness," which agrees to everything I've set forth here by
9.) As far as how the "three" are "one," that's really what my whole tract on
"The True Oneness of God" is about. "There are three (Entities) that bear record in
Heaven...and these three are ONE" (I Jn. 5;7). There's not three Persons, nor is
there only one Person; but rather two Persons who are made ONE by means of
having the same Spirit (the third entity). This is how WE can and must be made
ONE, in the same manner that the Father and the Son are one (Jn. 17:22). They
have separate bodies, but the same life substance, which is divine or eternal
life; which also is the divine nature. The oneness is in nature and
understanding and such things as this, even as we are instructed by the
Scriptures to have (I Cor. 1:10, etc.). This we can and will have, if we are led
and taught by the Spirit of God, as also we are instructed in the Scriptures to
be (Rom. 8:14, etc.; Jn. 14:26, etc.).
10.) As concerning God BEING the "written word," I would like to point you to
our article on Continuing In The Word Of God. But just in short order, God is
not the written word, but rather the written word is a record of some of God's
words and dealings with man.
Much of what I've written here is contained in our online gospel tract
titled In The Beginning. I hope that
the few things I've written here will answer some of the inquiries you sent
along. I believe also that if you read the
The True Oneness Of God again, you'll probably see what I'm saying
more clearly. Your correspondence is always welcome. Thanks again for writing.
Hi, I came across your site today and had a
question for you regarding your FAQ page. Following is my understanding of what
I think is being said, can you tell me if I am wrong or right.
- Salvation is what comes to all those, even today, who are Christians.
- New Birth, only comes to those who receive the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.
- New Birth is evidenced only with the speaking in tongues.
So, if this is true, then people can be saved (Christians), but not born again?
Is that correct?
Thanks for your inquiry regarding our website. Concerning Salvation, you
might refer to our FAQ's page question and answer titled
When and How is a
Person Saved, and also to our current
Gospel E-Word titled
The Devil's Oldest Trick. But in short order on Salvation, it is the reward for
faithful endurance in a holy life, after someone is born again, until the
time of their death. In other words, Salvation is actually the immortality
received by the faithful, dead and living, at the Lord's second coming
(Isa. 25:9, Isa. 40:31 ["mount up" means to ascend, or be caught up], I
Cor. 15:50-54, I Jn. 3:2,3, etc.). See I Pet. 1:3-9, Mat. 24:12,13, Philip.
2:12, Rom. 13:11, and Acts 15:11 for confirmation of that point, which is
to say that Salvation is at the end of one's faith, or faithfulness, as
stated in I Pet. 3:9; and not at the beginning of one's faith, as taught
erroneously by Christianity.
That brings us to your other questions concerning the New Birth.
CONVERSION, or new birth (same thing), is not the same thing as Salvation.
One is converted to Christ, or born again (made a new creature), by being
IN CHRIST, as stated by II Cor. 5:17. The only BIBLICAL way to get into
Christ, is through Baptism, which is stated clearly in Rom. 6:3, Gal. 3:27,
and I Cor. 12:13. And I Cor. 12:13 clarifies that it is the Spirit Baptism
(not water baptism) that puts us into Christ, or into the body of Christ. See our FAQ's article called
When and How Is a Person Born Again? The baptism of the
holy Ghost is
received by faith, through God's Grace, whereas water baptism is a work,
and is not of grace (Rom. 11:6). Refer to our Bible Study
Worship of God in Spirit and Truth . So yes, the
holy Ghost Baptism is the new
birth experience, and yes, it always is accompanied by the heavenly witness
of speaking with other tongues as the Spirit gives the utterance. Speaking
in tongues is a by-product of the experience (Isa. 28:11,12; Mat. 11:28:
Acts 3:19). The heart and soul of the new birth experience is full
repentance and faith toward Jesus, with a willingness for Him to take over
the reins of our life. God provided the heavenly witness for evidence that
HE has accepted OUR faith and repentance, seeing that He alone can see the
full details of what is going on in anyone's heart (Acts 15:7-9; Acts
10:44-46; Jer. 17:9; I Kin. 8:39; I Sam. 16:6,7; Mat. 23:27,28). You might also
check out our page on
Witness of Speaking With Other Tongues.
So to address your last question, it is impossible for someone to be saved,
without having experienced the new birth, seeing that Salvation comes at
the end of a faithful life of holiness (pureness of heart), after someone
has been born again. And yes, this does mean that Christianity is totally
wrong about all of the doctrines that it teaches concerning the Gospel of
Christ. Joe, the only place that God's truth can be found is IN CHRIST,
through the anointing of the holy Ghost, the Spirit of Truth! (II Cor.
3:17, Col. 2:2,3, I Jn. 2:27, Jn. 14:26, Jn. 16:13, etc., etc.) If you want
to know the truth, empty your heart out to the Lord, and let Him guide you
personally. He knows just how to let you know that He is the one leading
the way into all truth. Refer to our article titled
Continuing In The Word of God. Your inquiry is appreciated, and your
correspondence is valued. Great to hear from you!
Thanks for your
great answer. I agree with your view of the terms
salvation, conversion, new birth and with your definition of Spirit Baptism.
One last question though. So if New Birth / Conversion is always evidenced
by the speaking in tongues, does that mean, in your view, that anyone who
has not spoken in tongues is not born again (and ultimately then would not
have hope of salvation.)? Oh, one last thing. Would you classify your view
as in line with the Pentecostal tradition?
Hi Again Joe,
Speaking with other tongues when receiving the Spirit baptism, is the
unalterable witness from heaven that the individual has received the
remission of their sins. You might like to read our online tract titled
The Token, for more detail on that point. The reality of Salvation is
that one must be without sin in order to be raised in the first
resurrection, which is the rapture of the Bride of Christ, at His coming
Rev. 20:6, Heb. 12:15, Mat. 5:8, I Jn. 3:2,3). So if someone hasn't ever
spoken in tongues, this means that God's witness has never been given to
them because their repentance and faith toward Jesus hasn't met His terms,
regardless of how things may appear to be with them. We're told in Romans
8:10 that the power (holy Ghost) that raised Jesus from the dead, must also
dwell in us in order for our mortal bodies to be quickened (raised from the
dead). However I will say that many people have received the Spirit, and
the accompanying witness of speaking with tongues, without actually
realizing that they've spoken in tongues. That's really not uncommon. But
it does eventually manifest if the person is among people who are free in
their spiritual worship of God.
The answer to your other question about if I'm in the mainstream
traditional Pentecostal doctrine(s), the answer is no. Everything about
Christianity is erroneous, and the Pentecostal community is under the
traditions and doctrines of Christianity. The only differences between the
Pentecostal denominations, and non-denominations also for that matter, and
the other Christian denominations, is that many Pentecostals have
experienced the Baptism of the Spirit, and believe in the things that
pertain to the power of God; whereas by and large most other Christian
denominations do not, though there are probably people somewhere in every
denomination who have experienced these things at some time or another in
their life. But because those who do have the Spirit baptism have been
taught that it is not the new birth experience, but rather a secondary
"Christian" experience for those who are already "saved," they have been
caused to esteem erroneous new birth teachings like "getting saved" and
"accepting the Lord," before and above the experience that has delivered
them from sin (The holy Ghost Baptism). God is now calling His people
(those baptized with the Spirit into the body of Christ - I Cor. 12:13) out of
Christianity ( spiritual Babylon - Rev. 18:4) and ALL of the Christian
denominations, to become one with Him in and through the
And it should be noted that throughout history, God's way has never been
popular or mainstream with His people, and consequently those who have
known and strived to persuade others of His way have never been widely
esteemed or accepted by God's people either. "Nevertheless the foundation
of the Lord standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are
His" (II Tim. 2:19). There's a powerful and sobering reality about truly
being identified with the true Jesus. "He was despised, and rejected of
men..." (Isa. 53:3), and Jesus said that those who despised (lightly
esteemed) Him would do the same to those who truly followed Him ( Jn. 15:8,
Jn. 16:2). And it was unquestionably God's people who despised and rejected
Jesus. I don't know if you read the article on our FAQ's page, called
I've Had an Experience With The Lord, But I've Never Spoken in Tongues... This
article explains why the New Birth has been so widely misunderstood. Anyway,
that is kind of a long answer, but I felt it was a little more explanatory than
just saying yes or no. Thanks for your response, and you're welcome to write any
Good day Larry.
Thank you for taking time to explain your site. While we do have some
points of agreement (especially on the work of the Holy Spirit), in the end,
I fall into your category of false "christians" who are going to hell
because I don't speak in tongues. Allowing for the idea of some who spoke
in tongues but "don't know it" is a convenient cop-out from your position.
Where in any of the examples you cite is there ever a mention of "secret"
tongues? Or for that matter, where is it ever stated by any Apostle or
writer that tongues is the only true sign and seal of God's salvation? At
any rate, as soon as I find a place to fit you in, I will no doubt link to
your website from my own so that other folks can investigate your unique
I have to admit that I am genuinely saddened by this last response. I had
hoped that you were genuinely seeking the truth. Evidently we don't really
have any points of agreement after all, because there's no way we agree on
the work of the Spirit if you don't even realize that speaking with other
tongues is the initial evidence of the Spirit baptism. The reason some have
spoken in tongues without realizing it is because they are in deep earnest
prayer to God, and are not thinking about tongues, but make the needed
connection with God in their heart, and the Spirit begins speaking through
them. Since their mind and heart is on God to such an extent, and not on
themselves, sometimes a person may not realize that the Spirit even spoke
through them. When my wife received the holy Ghost, this is exactly what
took place with her. The Lord actually spoke to her in her mind, and said
"Listen to yourself." If the Lord hadn't spoken to her she wouldn't have
realized that the Spirit was speaking through her in tongues, because she
was so focused on drawing nigh to God. I don't really understand what the
cop-out is there.
Actually I don't have a position, or a theology, or an opinion about the
things that I preach, because I preach only what has been revealed to me by
God. If that sounds radical to you, it's only because you don't have
personal experience with the power of God. And I don't say that spitefully
or anything like that, but if you've never received the Spirit's witness
(speaking in tongues), then you've never received the Spirit, which alone
IS the power of God. As I said previously, the new birth (holy Ghost
Baptism) is not Salvation, it's conversion. Salvation is being in the first
resurrection, or rapture of the bride of Christ. I'm sure if you honestly
study the writings on our website, you will be able to acknowledge that
speaking in tongues is irrefutably the sign of the covenant, the witness
from Heaven that one's faith and repentance has been accepted by God. I
hope that you will give yourself an honest chance to see these truths as
they are. And one last thing Joe: I didn't say anything about you or anyone
else going to Hell - You did.
You wrote "The reason some have
spoken in tongues without realizing it is
because they are in deep earnest prayer to God, and are not thinking about
tongues, but make the needed connection with God in their heart, and the Spirit
begins speaking through them. Since their mind and heart is on God to such an
extent, and not on themselves, sometimes a person may not realize that the
Spirit even spoke through them. " And where was this modeled in Acts? I thought
they all spoke out loud. Where does this model appear in Scripture of the
"secret" or "hidden" tongue?
Hi Again Joe,
Actually I'm not talking about a "silent," "secret," or "hidden" utterance,
just one where the person doesn't immediately realize it. It is certainly
an audible utterance. We all know that we can be so focused and attuned to
something that we're involved with, that we may not hear someone speaking to
us, though they may be right next to us. Well, in this case it IS someone
else speaking, because it is the holy Ghost speaking through us. And as I
had said previously, when this does take place, and it is not uncommon, the
tongues will eventually manifest openly if the person continues to follow
hard after God. There is no mention of this in the book of Acts, but that
doesn't make it untrue. I mean seriously, can you really tell my wife and others that they haven't experienced what they
have experienced? There
also is no mention in the Bible, of God filling people's teeth with gold
fillings, but I've seen it take place before my eyes. Neither is there any
mention in the Bible of a man being able to see perfectly out of an eye
socket where there's no eye at all, but I also have witnessed this first
The real point however is that speaking with other tongues as the Spirit
gives the utterance is thoroughly documented by consistency of scripture as
being the initial witness or evidence that someone has received the Spirit
of God into their life. The fact that occasionally it happens that a person
may not have immediately realized that this took place, doesn't change the
reality that it DOES take place, and that it always takes place when
someone is born again. Look at Gal. 4:6 where it actually is referring to
the "birth cry" of the Spirit at the new birth, even as the natural birth
you will see that it is a word that is always used in the new testament
writings to indicate an audible crying out; and note that it says that "the
Spirit" cries out, not just the person.
Again, I really believe it would be time well invested to study a number of
the articles contained on our website. I grant you, that from the modern
Christian perspective, these truths are "unique" as you stated, but as I
stated before, God's truth has always been quite "unique" to the
overwhelming majority of God's people; and that certainly is heavily
documented throughout the Bible. And what so many people fail to see, is
that nothing ever changes. God is still the same, man is still the same,
and thus history repeats itself; and certainly the history of God's people is no exception to this rule. Nice to hear from you again.
Is their any evidence in the bible
of a specific person being baptized in the
name of the father, the son, and the holy spirit? I have been studying the bible
and can not find evidence of a specific person. Could you please help me in
understanding ? Thank you,
Thanks for writing. The technical answer to your question is no. There
isn't an instance in the Bible where someone was baptized in "the name of
the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Ghost," as Jesus alluded to in
Mat. 28:19. However I would like to answer your real question in as short
of order as possible. In terms of water baptism, it really doesn't matter
about the name issue, because water baptism was never meant to be continued
in the first place. Water baptism was an ordinance given by God to John the
Baptist for the purpose of introducing Jesus and His baptism to Israel (Mk.
1:6-8; Jn. 1:26-33). Jesus could not baptize anyone with the holy Ghost
while He was still on earth, because the Spirit Baptism is the work of His
Heavenly Priesthood, which is to say it is the experience that takes one's
sins away (Jn. 16:7; Jn. 7:37-39; Heb. 8:4; Acts 1:4,5). Jesus' Priesthood
could not begin until He ascended back to Heaven, where the merits of His
sacrifice (offering) were accepted by the Father (Heb. 8:1,2; Heb.
9:12,24-26). It was then that He sat down at the right hand of the Father,
and began working in the office of High Priest, which office has always
been for the purpose of making intercession to God for the remission of
sins of those who have brought the required offering (Heb. 9:7). Refer to our
gospel tract called "The Token."
After Jesus ascended to Heaven, having given His final instructions to His
followers, which was to wait in Jerusalem for the baptism of the holy
Ghost; seven days later the 120 people who had followed His instructions
were all baptized with the holy Ghost with the heavenly evidence of
speaking with other tongues (Acts 2:1-4). This experience that these people
received was and is the experience of the remission of sins, or new birth
if you will (I Cor. 6:11). Because Jesus came only to the Jews, and because
the old covenant was in effect as long as Jesus was on earth, and because
God did not immediately reveal the understanding of the fulfillment of the
law, water baptism continued after Pentecost, even though there was really
no more need for it. It was a work of the law because it was given by God
during the time of the old testament dispensation (Mat. 5:17; Jn. 3:14,15).
God first manifested what I'm talking about here, when Peter preached the
Gospel to Cornelius and his household in Acts 10. These were the first
Gentiles to have the Gospel preached unto them, and right after Peter began
preaching to them, they were all baptized with the holy Ghost by Jesus
(Acts 10:44). Peter and the Jews who came with him realized that Jesus had
filled these Gentiles with His Spirit only because they heard them speak
with other tongues (Acts 10:45,46).
Peter was puzzled by what had taken place, because he knew that everyone
who had received the holy Ghost had first been baptized in water, even as
he stated in Acts 2:38. So he went ahead and baptized them in water since
he didn't know what else to do (Acts 10:47,48). Jesus did not reveal to
Peter why He had beaten him to the punch, so to speak, but there was a
reason. The reason was because the Gentiles had never been under the law.
The law (old covenant) was given to lead the Jews to Christ (Gal. 3:24,25).
But since Jesus had already come and fulfilled the law, there was no reason
for the gentiles to be under any of the law. This is the message that Paul
was given by God, because God raised up Paul to be the Apostle to the
Gentiles (Rom. 15:15,16). And even though Paul baptized in water early in
his ministry, we see in the scriptures that he eventually ceased doing so,
having understood that water baptism had been fulfilled with the rest of
the works of the law (I Cor. 1:14-17). So that's where we end up here,
knowing that one must repent and believe on Jesus unto receiving Jesus'
baptism, which is always evidenced by speaking with other tongues. Water
baptism is not a factor, regardless what name it's done in. No doubt Jesus
was referring to His own baptism in Mat. 28:19, even as He was in Mk. 16:16
where He stated that baptism is what saves us. This also lines up with what
Peter said in I Pet. 3:21, where he specifically stated that the baptism
that saves us is not the one that "washes away the filth of the flesh," but
rather the one that came as a result of "the resurrection of Jesus Christ."
You might like to see our online Bible Study titled
"The Worship of God in Spirit and Truth" for
further understanding on this subject. Nice to hear from you. Write back anytime with whatever
questions may be on your mind.
Comment From Joe's
I've had a quick look at the 'byonespirit'
site and I'm a little disturbed at the teaching on the Godhead. What do others
Steve (Leicester UK)
Comment From Joe's
I had not read that part on the
site. I will have to look at the full context, but considering the view on
tongues being necessary for salvation, it may only really be one more problem
added to a host of others.
Comment From Joe's
So it appears that your assessment
is right and there is a clear rejection of trinitarian theology.
Hi Steve and Joe,
I just dropped in and noticed your observations about my website. Let me just
say at the moment that yes, Joe, the true understanding about the Father, the
Son, and the holy Ghost is just another of a great host of problems for
Christianity and all of it's man-made doctrines and traditions. And yes Joe,
you did accurately perceive that the truth on this subject is a complete
rejection of "trinitarian theology," as well as the other erroneous school of
thought on this subject known as "Jesus Only." The beauty of all this is that
you now have the opportunity to seek God with an honest, humble heart, being
completely willing to hear what HE has to say about these matters, rather than
just accept what Christianity has handed down to you. This is the only pathway
to the true blessing of God, which is only available to those who love His
acceptance and honor more than one another's acceptance and honor (Jn. 5:44). Check out our article on
"Continuing In The Word Of God."
As far as what you are deeming to be my errors in doctrine, by all means
manifest that it is error, but do so by consistency of scriptural evidence and
not by rhetoric of Christianity's traditions. And I also am leaving the
link to the gospel tract that you have referred to and quoted from, in case
anyone would be interested in reading it in it's entirety:
True Oneness of God"
From Joe,Good day Lary. I have thought about your post for a
couple days now, and while there is much I could say, I would like to focus in
on the single subject of tongues as the necessary sign of New Birth. If you
are open, I would like to take this one question, one point, at a time. First,
let me ask a clarifying question. You say that only those who speak with
tongues are Born again, however, is the antithesis of this also true; all who
speak with tongues are born again?
Nice to hear from you. We know that for everything that is real and genuine in
this life, there is something that is an imitation of it. We have counterfeit
money, fake gems, etc. This certainly holds true in matters pertaining to the
kingdom of God. I know of situations where people are taught how to speak in
tongues, told what to say in tongues, and other false things pertaining to the
subject. That however doesn't change the reality of "speaking with other
tongues as the SPIRIT gives the utterance" in those who have contritely
repented of sin, and have sought wholeheartedly after Jesus until He baptizes
them with His Spirit.
When Jesus described the new birth experience to Nicodemus in Jn. 3, He
clearly stated that there is a SOUND that accompanies the experience of being
born again, in every case. I've read your testimony, and you're obviously a
well educated, well versed individual, so you shouldn't have to do much Greek
homework to confirm that. That sound is the same one that Isaiah spoke of in
Isa. 28: 11.12, when he prophesied of the rest and refreshing for the weary
soul, that would be obtained under the new covenant. Of course Paul confirmed
that this prophecy was indeed referring to speaking with other tongues (I Cor.
14:21,22). Read Isaiah's words, and with Paul's confirmation in mind, look
also at Jesus' words in Mat. 11:28, regarding the rest that He came to make
available for those who are "heavy laden.". We know that Jesus' came to make a
way for sin to be done away with, so that man could be reconciled unto God by
Him. The rest that Jesus provides is the lifting of the burden of sin off of
those who are "labor (ing), and are heavy laden." Now look at Peter's
statement in Acts 3:19 regarding the new birth, wherein one's sins are taken
away; still considering Isaiah's words, now coupled with Jesus' words in Mat.
11:28. The "refreshing" that Peter mentions that accompanies the new birth, is
the same refreshing that Isaiah spoke of, even as the "rest" that Jesus spoke
of as accompanying the lifting of the burden of the "heavy laden," is also the
same rest that Isaiah mentioned. Joe, that rest and refreshing is also the
"sound" that Jesus mentioned to Nicodemus, as accompanying the new birth,
every time it is experienced - speaking with other tongues as the Spirit gives
Anyone who has received this experience knows by personal and glorious
EXPERIENCE that it is truly an otherworldly rest and refreshing for the inner
man. That is why Jude commanded believers to "build up your most holy faith,
praying in the holy Ghost," which is certainly referring to praying in tongues
(I Cor. 14:14). Continuing in this experience is the only way that anyone can
live free from sin, on the inside, and serve the Lord in "righteousness and
true holiness." This experience is what Paul referred to as "the washing of
regeneration, and renewing of the holy Ghost," which he says is what saves us,
and in fact will continue to save us from the power of sin, if we continue in
that refreshed, renewed state. Well my time is up for now, but I'll check back
Ok, that was the long way of saying not all who
speak in tongues are saved, but all who are saved must speak in tongues. I am
clear on your position so far. I only have two other question (I think) about
tongues before I ask for details on the Scriptural foundation for your
theology that they are necessary for New Birth.
For the sake of clarity and fairness, I will post one at a time and let you
respond to each.
How many "kinds" of tongues are there? In other words, is there a "gift of
tongues" which is different from "praying in tongues" which is different from
the "New Birth tongues"? Or, is there only one kind of tongue?
Yes Joe, it's true that everyone speaks in tongues
at the new birth, but not everyone has the gift of tongues. The gift of
tongues is the capacity to speak in various kinds of tongues (I Cor.
12:10,28), whether they be tongues of men, or tongues of angels (I Cor. 13:1).
Most people who receive the Spirit generally speak in one kind of tongue,
whether in worship or in prayer. Often time a person with the gift of tongues
also has the capacity to interpret. In this case a person is led to speak in
tongues, and immediately the Spirit will speak back through them in English.
This is the case where the git of tongues is equal to prophecy, because of the
interpretation (I Cor. 14:5). Occasionally another individual may interpret
what has been spoken through someone in tongues (I Cor. 14:27).
I do not have the gift of tongues myself, but several times I have been on the
receiving end of a message that the Lord has manifested through someone,
through tongues and interpretation. I have to tell you, when someone comes up
to you and starts praying over you in tongues, and suddenly words in English
start coming out of their mouth, speaking of things that nobody on earth could
possibly know about you, or a situation that you may be dealing with
internally; it is quite an awe-inspiring and faith building experience.
Lastly, the capacity to pray in tongues is given to everyone who receives the
Spirit, and as Jude said, this capacity should be continually exercised. And
before you decide to question the scriptural foundation for speaking in
tongues as being the sign of the new birth experience, be sure to go over the
things that I have already set forth on that point, along with the scriptural
references and references to articles on my site; so that I don't need to be
Is there any Scriptural basis for a church to have a
prayer meeting lasting 30min each day where not
one person leads the time - but all gathered simply
are told, "Let's pray" and all immediately start praying
out loud in a so called tongue. Then, after 30 minutes
the leader simply says, "Times up, thankyou for coming
God is certainly doing something when so many come
together to pray in the Spirit"?
Dear Fred (I presume),
This is a rather interesting question. From what you have written I'm
wondering if you're real question is about praying in the Spirit period.
Prayer in the holy Ghost is referred to several times in the new testament
writings, most pointedly in Rom. 8:26; I Cor. 14; Eph. 6:18; and Jude 1:20.
The passage that definitively states that prayer in the Spirit is actually
prayer in "other," or "unknown" tongues is I Cor. 14:14,15. As far as
prayer meetings, there certainly ample evidence in the Scriptures of
believers gathering together solely for the purpose of praying.
When people are gathered together for prayer, everyone should pray in a
manner that they feel comfortable with, and can produce the most faith
with. I always instruct people who attend my services to pray as they feel
led. So some may pray silently, some may pray in tongues loudly, some may
pray in tongues or in their own words less loudly or whatever. When were
gathered together to pray, the only thing that we should be focused on is
our own individual faith and prayer to God, though it is certain we will
most likely hear others as well. But faith and prayer on an individual
basis is the issue, and we can't be exercising faith in God if we are
allowing ourselves to be annoyed or irritated by the way someone else may
As far as the time limit that you mentioned, I just don't know enough about
the circumstances to say anything about that. I admit that it does sound
rather formal and ceremonial to just abrubtly say "that's it for now," or
whatever the case may be; but again, I don't know the circumstances. I can
only hope that the people you have mentioned are praying with honest and
humble hearts, and that the Lord is using those prayers for someone's good.
If you feel I've misunderstood something in your question, or if you care
to correspond about anything that's on your mind, you are most welcome to
do so. I hope this answer has in some way helped. Thanks for writing, and
By One Spirit
P.S. I'm sure that further study of our website can shed much light on the
subject of speaking in tongues and what it is really about. You might enjoy
reading my personal testimony about how I received the holy Ghost into my
life, and what it has done for me:
A Lost Sheep Found
Thankyou for your prompt reply. Your comments are appreciated.
My wife and I were once Jehovah's Witnesses until we met the
real Lord Jesus in 1978. We were baptised in the Holy Spirit shortly
after we came to Him. So, the question is not about "praying in the Spirit"
but rather the fact that the type of prayer meeting came into being as a
result of someone saying that, "I believe that the Lord has called us into a
season of prayer in which we will gather Monday through Friday from 6:30
to 7pm to pray in the Spirit for 30 minutes". This is in addition to the
weekly evening prayer meeting on Wednesdays from 7-8pm; Wednesdays at 9:30-10:30
for Intercessors and also11-12noon for all who would like to attend
and also 10 minutes before Sunday morning and evening services.
In all these meetings people do all the things you do in your meetings.
However, these meetings are "led" to pray for all the needs and work
of the church; the church family and the body of Christ. The leading of
the Holy Spirit is sought in all of these. But, the 30 minutes each week-day
is not led by anyone and there are no specifics given as to what to pray
for, there is nothing but praying in tongues for the full 30 minutes - no
topics suggested, no needs mentioned, no "words" and no other comments
are made. People just file in and cease to speak to each other for the full
time and then go home! These meetings have been running for over two
months and nothing seems to have come of it all - in fact the numbers have
dwindled from nearly 30 each night to sometimes only 2-3?
My wife and I can't qualify this in the Word, no do we know anyone who
has experienced this - that's why I thought I would ask further afield?
Hi Again Fred,
I'm glad to hear from you again. Thanks for getting me straightened out
about the issue. I'm also glad to learn that your wife and yourself have
been born of the Spirit of God. It sounds like a lot of other people have
felt the same thing that you and your wife have felt, from what you said
about the dwindling numbers. I do agree that someone should be leading the
group to some extent, like you mentioned. When there is no right leadership
there's always confusion. Are you certain that where you are, as far as a
congregation, is where you belong? I do know by the Spirit and by the Scriptures
(Rev. 18:4) that God is calling His people unto Himself, and out of a whole
lot of religious things that are hindering His people from being led and
taught by the Spirit. God was being boxed out by His people even before
the first century A.D. was finished (Rev. 3:20), so it's no marvel that He
would be calling His people out of situations now that are not prospering
His people's souls and lives. (Rev. 3:20 is often used as a call to sinners
to come to Christ, but actually it was a message from Jesus to the Pastor
[angel or messenger] of the congregation in Laodicea).
I would say that the best thing that you can do is just really seek the
Lord together for an answer about the whole situation. I'm sure He will
manifest the truth of the matter to you. He may be using this situation to
get something across to you, in terms of direction. My perception is that
you are wanting to do whatever is the right thing to do, and God may be
bringing you through this so that you can search Him out about it, and He
can open up a clearer path to you on a larger scale than just this
To be perfectly open with you, most of God's people are in situations where
the affiliations that they are part of are in many things causing
the people who are seeking to be led by God's Spirit to go in another
direction. One of the things that constitute this condition is over-much
religious service that God simply is not in. I do admit it does
sound kind of like this is what is going on here. The result of being in
this kind of strait is a confusion on the part of honest hearted believers
between feeling in their hearts that they are not being truly blessed in
all of this supposed service to the Lord, but not wanting to fail God by not
going along with it all. It can and does paralyze the spirit of those who
allow themselves to continue to be trapped in this manner. I know a lot of
people who are in that very state, and for whatever reason, they allow
themselves to continue to be weighted down by that captivity. The Lord gave
me a dream somewhere around 16-18 years ago where He let me feel exactly
what people in that kind of situation are feeling and dealing with. If
you're interested I'll be glad to tell you and your wife about it. It's
quite a revealing dream, and totally scriptural. Anyway I hope maybe I've
said something to help in some way, and you're always welcome to
correspond. May God bless you both mightily!
Good morning again Lary!
Thankyou again for getting back to us so quickly. I guess you've said a
lot that we are already thinking and praying about. It's difficult to know
what the right course of action is when we have two married daughters
and their husbands and children also fellowshipping in the same church?
However, we only want what our Heavenly Father wants for us and
rest assured that is what we will do. Yes, if it is not too much trouble,
we would like to know about your dream as you said. There is much
that goes on in the church today that is simply not of God - it's just that
this prayer thing has confronted us and we want to be really sure that
we are not missing something - that's why we spend so much time in
the Word when we come across something that doesn't "sit".
Thanks for being there.
I am trying to understand this, if you have any info, I would appreciate it.
I have heard both sides and am very confused
in speakng in tongues.
Thanks much for your inquiry regarding our website. Actually there is a
whole lot of biblically informative stuff on our site concerning the topic
of speaking in tongues. Our menu bar is on the right and also at the
bottom; and also wherever you see black scripture quotations on our site,
those are links to articles, most of which have to do with speaking in
tongues. If you would like to tell me just exactly what it is, about
speaking in tongues that is confusing to you, I would be more than happy to
correspond with you on the topic. Also since you've left your address I'll
try to get a couple of our radio or tv broadcasts copied and send them
along as soon as I can.
The main things I would like to pass along at the moment is that speaking
in tongues is a by-product of the experience of the new birth, or the holy
ghost baptism. In other words speaking in tongues is not so much the
experience itself, but rather the initial manifestation that the new birth
has occurred. When a person fully repents of sin, and turns their will
completely over to God, and believes whole-heartedly on Jesus for the
forgiveness of their sins, Jesus baptizes them with the holy ghost. The
experience brings with it the literal washing away of sin from the inner
being, and replaces it with the divine love and peace that dwells in the
heart of God. And it always comes with the manifestation of the Spirit of
God speaking through us in tongues that we've never spoken in before. It's
automatic, and the tongues do not come by seeking for them or being mindful
of them coming. They only come when the heart and mind is set fully on
drawing nigh to Jesus, and that special new birth connection of faith is
made. Speaking in tongues is the consistent "sound" that accompanies every
new birth experience, that Jesus mentioned in John 3:7,8.
After one experiences the new birth they can and should continue to
exercise the practice of speaking in tongues, in prayer and in worship.
Once you've received the Spirit with the initial evidence of speaking in
tongues, it is a natural thing to continue this manifestation on a regular
basis, and it always brings a renewing and peace to the soul. Isaiah
referred to it as "rest and refreshing for the weary" (Isa. 28:11,12). In
addition to these things, there is also a "gift of tongues," where someone
may be particularly gifted in speaking in various kinds of tongues, and may
also follow the utterance with the English
(in our case) interpretation (I
Cor. 12:10,28,30). I have done this some myself though I don't consider
myself to have that particular gift of the Spirit in a prolific manner. I
have been on the receiving end of this type of message from the Lord,
spoken through someone in tongues and then in English, manifesting things
that no one in the world could have possibly known other than myself.
So there is a difference between speaking in tongues as the steadfast sign
of the new birth experience, and having a "gift" of tongues. Everyone
speaks in tongues when they are born again, but not everybody receives a
special gift of "divers kinds of tongues," and or the "interpretation of
tongues." Thus the statement in I Cor. 12:30, "Do all speak in tongues?"
The context there is all about "gifts" of the Spirit for people who have
already received the Spirit. Anyway I hope that this helps some. I really
recommend studying our website very thoroughly. You can really learn some
solid bible truth through the various articles on the site that deal with
this topic, as well as other topics of great importance. I'm leaving you a
couple of good links to get you started, and the main thing is for you to
really seek the Lord in prayer with total honesty of heart, humility,
faith, and willingness to know what He would show you. He will steer you
into the right understanding of things if you are willing and determined
for Him to do so. May God bless you richly, and hopefully we will be able
to correspond further in the future.
I've just read a few
articles on your website and so far, I am amazed and
the twisting of scripture. To say that one must speak in tongues to be
saved is heresy. What one must do to be saved? One must be born again.
You must be born of water and born of the Spirit to enter the Kingdom of
Heaven Christ spoke to Nicodemus. I do not recall in my bible that Jesus
said, "You must be born of the Spirit AND speak in tongues." I don't read
that because it's not scriptural. Paul also said that "if you confess with
your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised Him
from the dead, you will be saved." Again, I fail to see the scripture
saying if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your
heart that God raised Him from the dead, AND SPEAK IN TONGUES, you will be
saved. It doesn't say that. Your defense of what you believe is in your
interpretation of scripture. These two simple passages leave no room for
your or my interpretation. It is simple and true, that one must confess
their sins and acknowledge that Christ is the risen Son of God, they shall
It is unfortunate that your heretic message, the same message given by the
cult UPC, has probably driven more people away from Christ than it has drawn
them to Christ. That alone should make someone realize the false and errant
The glory of Christ's crucifixion, resurrection and ascension to glory
making the way for all of creation to come to this knowledge in Christ and
be saved should NEVER be compromised. Your teaching and isolation of
scripture may prove your distorted point to some, but taking the Word of God
in the context it was written in as well as obvious doctrinal points such as
1 Cor 12's teaching on the gifts provides the real truth.
Thanks for your inquiry regarding the gospel truth contained on our
website. Most of the things you mentioned are answered soundly and
consistently from the Scriptures, on articles posted on the site. I'm sure
if your heart really seeks the truth of God, you will be able to find those
answers therein. I will address the mention of Rom. 10:9,10 because I'm not
altogether certain at the moment that there is a direct reference to that
drastically misunderstood passage of scripture on the site. Like Deut.
30:11-14, from which this passage is taken, the text is an admonition to
people who are already in covenant with God, to continue steadfastly in the
faith. You can see the equivalent of Rom. 10:9,10 in I Cor. 15:1,2.
The only people that this passage of scripture can apply to, are people,
like God's people at Rome whom Paul was addressing, who have been baptized by
one Spirit into one body (I Cor. 12:13). No one is in the one body, or
congregation of the Lord, except those who have experienced the holy Ghost baptism by means
of true repentance, and faith in Jesus (Jn. 7:37-39; Jn. 4:14; Acts 19:4-6,
etc., etc.). You mentioned the crucifixion, resurrection and ascension to
Glory by Jesus. The one reason for all three of these realities, was so
that people could be baptized with the holy Ghost by the hand of Jesus,
even as John the Baptist, Jesus, and Peter affirmed (Mk. 16-8; Acts 1:4,5;
Acts 2:33). You may want to refer to our article on
The Baptism of The Holy Ghost From Jesus.
It was no mistake that when Jesus first began baptizing with the holy
Ghost, that all of the recipients thereof spoke with other tongues as the
Spirit gave them utterance. In I Cor. 14:21,22 the Apostle Paul let us know
that speaking with other tongues is a sign to unbelievers. This
God-appointed sign has always and is always present with every single
experience of new birth, even as circumcision was required to be with all
of the male children of the seed of Abraham (Gen. 17:10-14). The females
were identified with the circumcision of their father or their husband.
Circumcision was the sign to all the rest of the world, who it was at that
time that was in covenant with God. There's so much more that can be said,
but it appears by my tracker that you came into the website through the
Bible study on "Speaking in Tongues and The New Birth," so there's a whole
lot of solid scriptural evidence right there supporting this truth if you
care to go over it. I have to wonder, and you should probably ask yourself,
what were you doing typing in a search that would lead to my site, which is
totally devoted to this holy truth? If you are interested in learning about
this powerful and necessary experience of true, literal deliverance from
sin, I would be more than happy to hear more from you. If some kind of
religious contention and debate is more what interests you, I truly don't
have time. I'm too busy working with people who are interested in growing
in God, and striving after the eternal salvation of the Lord. I hope you
fall into that category.
P.S. Whatever this UPC is that you mentioned, I can assure you that they
are not teaching the same things that are on my website. I sure wish they